Can we please, please – PLEASE! not make the nonsensical US date format month/day/year the default in applications? 🤦‍♂️


And to all users of that format: it makes no sense, it's counter-intuitive, it makes collaboration frustrating, it introduces inconsistencies and errors... Just stop. Please. Use international standards.
(And don't get me started on your other units of weights, volumes and distances. Bloody hell.)

Boost if I'm right.

@stragu I use YY/MM/DD since lexicographical order and chronological order coincide.

@fabianhjr @stragu

Not between 1999 and 2000

It's also not strictly unambiguous with DD/MM/YY the way that YYYY-MM-DD is

@stragu you’re correct insofar as asserting that this is a bad practice. incorrect insofar as assuming you will get americans to care.

@stragu and display timezones as GMT+nn, I have absolutely no w@#$@#$ idea why central mountain time is!

@ajft @stragu To stay neutral then UTC is probably better than GMT, see ; this also avoids the AM/PM format that is just confusing, like all timezones abbreviations when they are not of the format "Continent or Country/City" (sometimes even a state in the US can have 2 legal timezones at the same time, depending on the city you are in)

@pmevzek @stragu true. old me is old and I end up saying GMT. Now don't even think about getting onto the subject of peoples' names in applications and the US-centric "christian-name, one mandatory middle name, surname"!

@stragu "American date format, invented by me it was" (Yoda)


Also abandon feet, miles, inches, pinches, furlongs, gallons and other archaic and confusing units.

@kravietz @stragu I agree with both but it'll take at least 1 generation of transition.

@stragu my ranking of best formats:

1. UTC unix time (for APIs and stuff)
2. ISO 8601
3. everything else

@stragu ISO-8601 YYYY-MM-DD only. The euro DD-MM-YYYY is the worst, it sorts by day. At least the US one sorts by month, then day, so a 1-year archive is correct.
#date #iso8601 #hasaposse

@mdhughes @stragu I'm all game with ISO-8601 being the best.

But... How is DD-MM-YYYY *worse* than MM-DD-YYYY?

At least DD-MM-YYYY is a reverse sorted YYYY-MM-DD and not a "random order" one.

@sa0bse @stragu As posted in the very old post you replied to: "At least the US one sorts by month, then day, so a 1-year archive is correct."

EU order sorts by day first, which is never what you want. Or were you planning on piping everything thru `rev` before sorting?

@mdhughes @stragu As someone else mentioned in some other part of this tree of posts.

It's probably based on language. In US people when they communicate dates they seem to tell it in the order of MM-DD-YYYY while in at least two countries that I'm aware of in EU we're saying it in the order of DD-MM-YYYY, which is part of how the spoken language works.

month/day/year - American
day/month/year - European
year/month/day - International

@alm10965 @stragu The day starts at 00:00, ends at 24:00 (which is the same as 00:00 of the following day, which is why you'll never see it on a clock).

@stragu I need more accounts here to boost this. Like a few thousand more.

@stragu I lived here for most of my life at this point and it still makes no freaking sense.

@pabs @stragu this is wrong. when you consider the individual digits (which is the entire purpose of the triangles) it should look like this

@xnx38h @pabs @stragu I gotta agree with xnx38h. Y-M-D is best for a variety of reasons, while M/D/Y and D/M/Y are pretty equally bad, but at least M/D/Y is written in the order we (US) say dates. (Please: use Y-M-D for everything technical or formal or international!)

@xnx38h @pabs @stragu D/M/Y has "logic" in that each increases in size... but does that translate to any real world benefit? If you sort by DMY you get the most-interleaved, worst order of these three. It's like writing binary LSB first, or timestamps SS:MM:HH

@touk @xnx38h @pabs @stragu
There is a benefit of speaking it this way: depending on context, a prefix may be enough. Eg. if you know beforehand the year is 2021 you may stop listening after "6th of June"

@mvz @xnx38h @pabs @stragu Right, they're both valid as written forms of how people speak. 🙂
I think we all agree Y-M-D is great because it's sortable, unambiguous, most-significant-first, filename-friendly...

Now... US weights, volumes, distances, 12-hour time... are much more deserving of criticism 🙃

@touk @mvz @xnx38h @pabs @stragu Fun thing, in Sweden we also have the shortformat DD/MM where we say "first in third" (directly translated for first of March). So the extended version of that is pretty much DD/MM/YYYY. I guess it's pretty identical in NL.

@pabs @stragu It's literally just "the way you say it when you talk."

"When is Halloween?" "October thirty-first, I think."


@Magess @pabs @stragu that's not universal. In British English we say "the 31st of October". Cause and effect are very strange here.

@iMartyn @Magess @pabs @stragu Brits used to say it the way Americans do but started changing in the late 19th century to align more closely with the mainland where in romance languages it was spoken with the day first. It's only the "standard" because Europe made it so. The actual ISO standard is YYYY-MM-DD. Apps should instead just adapt to the locale.

@pabs @stragu not entirely European. Thankfully some European countries like Sweden is sane, and uses ISO standard.

@loke @pabs @stragu Yes, but not everywhere. We still do this, todays date is 3/3. Which matches the pattern of DD/MM/YYYY.

@sa0bse @stragu @loke @pabs True. And some EU regulation like expiry dates requires DD/MM/YYYY format and applies to Sweden.

But in a formal context, like contract dates and other things, Sweden has been using YYYY-MM-DD since before ISO-8601. Swedish ID numbers started using big-endian dates (but without the dashes and with a two-digit year) already in 1947.

@clacke @loke @sa0bse @pabs wow cool little bit of history! Thank you! And I didn’t know about the term “big-endian”.

@stragu @loke @sa0bse @pabs The term originally comes from Gulliver's Travels! The Liliput war is about which end of the egg to put in the cup, IIRC.

Hackers then borrowed the term and used it for which end of the byte or word goes first, anticipating the wars over it. =)

@clacke @stragu @sa0bse @pabs There is no war. There is just the correct answer (always big endian, for bytes and dates).

🙂 (need to add that, because sarcasm and Internet)

@loke @stragu @sa0bse @pabs Just because you're right doesn't mean nobody will go to war against you. 😁

that made me check if #Niantic had fixed their US-centric date format in #PokémonGO, which I'd reported as bug #feedback to them a while ago:

Which it looks like they did!
I mean, sure, it isn't #ISO8601, but at least the catch dates are now displayed in the device #locale, rather than whichever developer's or team lead's preferred format, which make it *my* choice, which is a win in my book.

oddly enough it still seems to work on all phones or accounts, as my wife's is still showing that ridiculous format...

@stragu also stop making sunday the first day of the week in your app, please

@stragu I shall thrown another in: DIN 5008 for letters.

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