Question for folks who use screen-readers:
On a website or document, how would you prefer people to format a logical progression, for example in a software menu?
I often use the "greater than" symbol, like so: File > New > Text Document.
I've used in the past the arrow mad of two characters "->", but I suspect that might be appalling for screen-readers...
Which one(s) of these options do you prefer? Or something else as a reply if you want.
@stragu android's built in screen reader reads '->' as 'to', but not sure how other ones read it
'→' is read as 'right pointing arrow' which i guess gets the point across too
@stragu Hmm. I never thought much about it. > is read as "greater" where as → is "right arrow", which makes the first a shorter option. I voted for that, but both are fine.
I don't think I use any particular rule for such things. Commas, the . symbol, hell even \ ... whichever I think of first.
@Mayana It's also true that people tend to use different punctuation reading settings. I will most likely see a > character because of my usual configuration, but that doesn't have to be the case. There isn't much you can do about that, it's just something to possibly keep in mind. Any kind of list for stuff like this might be slightly too verbose in my opinion though.
@guilevi @stragu @Mayana I think that with most screen readers at the default punctuation settings a greater will be spoken, it's what I usually use myself. The right arrow emoji is a bit more risky, especially for people using braille. It might get printed out as right arrow in words at best, or a question mark or nothing at worst. So yeah, greater is probably the safest option.
@stragu In my "Rhapsode" auditory web browser I don't verbally read out ">" or "->" aloud by default as anything other than a pause. So I'd advise against those options, but my implementation might be weird.
@alcinnz Why have you decided to implement it like this? It would make reading some math, as well as some other text (like these file menu explanations, as well as X >Y memes) almost impossible.
Afaik, no other screen reader doees this. Or at least, none I've used, with the default symbol reading settings.
@Mayana @stragu I found webpage text sounded cleaner when it doesn't read punctuation outloud. We humans don't. Apparantly eSpeak NG (which, btw, powers many screenreaders) counts `-` & `>` as punctuation but counts unicode arrow as an emoji...
Incidentally you can alter this default with the `speak-as: literal-punctuation` CSS property.
@alcinnz Hmm. If the choice is just between reading *all* or no punctuation, I suppose I can understand your decision. Most screen readers have a few more stages in-between, with additional dictionaries on top, but that might be out of scope for an internet browser.
Personally I don't mind the lack of "humanity" because of punctuation being read; I much prefer that to things being skipped or replaced with identical-sounding pauses, which means a loss of plenty of context. But hey, I've been listening to TTS all my life, so I'm hella biased! It all depends on what you're using it for, I suppose.
Now I'm wondering whether this could be something useful to contribute upstream? Could doing so help make Orca nicer? I don't know.
Btw my primary goal is concision; to describe page structure using tone of voice rather than verbose descriptions. It's a little weird to say I'm going for humanity when using eSpeak NG, but there is truth to that...
@stragu I want to see the results. Personally I prefer the right arrow, encoded as utf8, but in some systems (confluence) these look weird so I use > instead. I don't use screen readers, so I won't vote.
@stragu I've always used |
e.g. File | New | Text Document
...maybe I should change to the winner of this survey.
@stragu I'm surprised so many screen reader users voted for the right arrow symbol considering that not all screen readers or TTS extensions can parse that by default, and some can't even be customized to do so.
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